Vent your bad beats : name the site

[SoCal]

"True Poker" site

$500 NL table

I am dealt K-Q and bet $10 pre-flop... only one other calls

10-A-3 on the flop, str8 draw (flush draw is NOT on the board)... I bet $20 and he calls

J on the turn (yes!) now I have str8 ace high. I bet $25 and he raise me $50

I go all-in for $247 ... and ... I got him for at least that $50, right? Unless this sucker calls me. then I got him for the enchilada. I can only hope...

This is what is annoying me... The website seemingly froze up so that I don't see him make his play OR see the river card dealt.. all I see is a pause in play and then all the chips sliding to him. MF-er !!!!!

Apparently he called my all in for $247 holding 10-10 after catching that 10 on the flop. This SOB only had a set of tens when he called my all in... and then catches a 10 on the river for a quad to beat my str8 ace high which I had on the turn.

Know this... I don't go all in for $250 bucks as ordinary play. If this was for $50 bucks or whatever, I chalk it up to experience. WTF is with the web site freezing so i cant see him Call or see the river card turned? I play there all the time and I have seen the site pause on occassion, but not EVER in a critical situation, nor with those type results. Am I making an accusation? Not really.. I play there alot and have won bigger pots than that. But I'll be damned if that isn't my all time worst loss AND the fact that the web site didn't let me see the sequence of play that kicked my ass is not re-assuring.

##$##$%*&$ !!!

List your bad beats as they happen. I dare you to beat that.

 

[theswami]

That's not really a bad beat. You led the hand on exactly..count it...1 street. The river card sucked but you can HARDLY call that a bad beat when:

1) He had you beat preflop.
2) He had you murdered on the flop (you had 4 outs).
3) He had 10 outs to beat you on the river.

Any garden variety all-in preflop AA versus KK where someone catches a K is a worse beat than yours.

The original post is why poker will be good for YEARS to come.

Please do not post bad beat stories.

 

[SoCal]

That's not really a bad beat. You led the hand on exactly..count it...1 street. The river card sucked but you can HARDLY call that a bad beat when:

1) He had you beat preflop.
2) He had you murdered on the flop (you had 4 outs).
3) He had 10 outs to beat you on the river.

Any garden variety all-in preflop AA versus KK where someone catches a K is a worse beat than yours.

The original post is why poker will be good for YEARS to come.

Please do not post bad beat stories.

Listen up ACE :

I led the hand to see if he had a hand. Given the nature of the play at the table... THAT WAS THE PLAY. I'd be willing to fold my hand after he calls if I don't get my card. If you never tried to push someone out of a hand, then I guess "poker will be good for years to come". Fact is... I got my card on the turn. str8 ace high. He has ONE out. He needed a quad to beat me, nothing more does it. take your righteousness and stiuck it up your ass.

Post your bad beats

 

[theswami]

SoCal-

You are too funny.

Originally, I said "poker will be good for years to come" because you thought your beat was so horrible and it fact it wasn't. The fact is that MANY who complain about beats and berate bad players just don't understand the game themselves.

I've certainly tried to push people around in an attempt to try to win a pot and have had it back-fire. The bottom line is that you got a bit unlucky but ONLY because you yourself got a miracle card on the turn.

Based on your second post and the fact that YOU thought and still think he had ONE out there are other reasons why "poker will be good for years to come."

I'm not an Ace and my handle is theswami. I'm no expert but at last check a full house beats a str8 so you should recount those outs.

I'm not self-righteous at all. I've always enjoyed this game but the internet and various forums have given me a chance to discuss the game with other players who enjoy the game as much as I. Unfortunately, there is a ton of bad information posted and if I can lend a different view or correct a post I do so. Use this opportunity to learn.

Now tell me again why he had only one out. If I missed something I need to know so I can become a better player.

 

[ProPokerPlayer]

heres 1 that almost happened to me the other night then DID happen to another player at my table yesterday.

2 players all in, kk vs qq, k player all grins !....flop brings a queen, q player all grins !! river brings a k and k player is all smiles..THEN the chips go the other way...WHAT?? you guessed it..the k on the flop made the flush for the q's

 

[kidslick]

Based on your second post and the fact that YOU thought and still think he had ONE out there are other reasons why "poker will be good for years to come."

I'm not an Ace and my handle is theswami. I'm no expert but at last check a full house beats a str8 so you should recount those outs.

SHARP POST ACE, I MEAN SWAMI

 

[theswami]

SHARP POST ACE, I MEAN SWAMI

Thanks but I think even the guy who uses a hand ranking card at the table could have shut this guy down. Too bad he disappeared.

I would love for him to either say 1) "you are wrong", then prove it to me or 2) "I stand corrected."

I wasn't being a dick but guys like him ruin games for EVERYONE.

 

[Kruser6]

***** Hand History for Game 1770682023 *****

$0.5/$1 Hold'em - Monday, March 21, 17:31:05 EDT 2005

Table Table 25384 (Real Money)

Seat 3 is the button

Total number of players : 10

Seat 1: kruser6 ( $20 )

Seat 2: medisle ( $73.75 )

Seat 3: CaseChips ( $61.75 )

Seat 4: hkk98 ( $25.25 )

Seat 5: EugeneTanaka ( $26.5 )

Seat 6: kissMyAzS ( $19.75 )

Seat 7: mattsmaze ( $46.25 )

Seat 8: Tuaphua ( $228 )

Seat 10: bellom21 ( $37 )

Seat 9: milkdude222 ( $32.25 )

hkk98 posts small blind [$0.25].

EugeneTanaka posts big blind [$0.5].

** Dealing down cards **

Dealt to kruser6 [ Kh As ]

kissMyAzS folds.

mattsmaze folds.

Tuaphua folds.

milkdude222 raises [$1].

bellom21 calls [$1].

kruser6 calls [$1].

medisle calls [$1].

>You have options at Table 11403 Table!.

CaseChips folds.

hkk98 folds.

EugeneTanaka folds.

** Dealing Flop ** [ 4c, Ad, 8s ]

milkdude222 checks.

bellom21 bets [$0.5].

kruser6 raises [$1].

medisle calls [$1].

milkdude222 calls [$1].

bellom21 calls [$0.5].

** Dealing Turn ** [ 5c ]

>You have options at Table 13964 Table!.

milkdude222 checks.

bellom21 checks.

kruser6 bets [$1].

medisle calls [$1].

milkdude222 calls [$1].

>You have options at Table 13964 Table!.

bellom21 folds.

>You have options at Table 11403 Table!.

** Dealing River ** [ 2c ]

milkdude222 bets [$1].

kruser6 calls [$1].

medisle calls [$1].

milkdude222 shows [ 5s, 2s ] two pairs, fives and twos.

kruser6 doesn't show [ Kh, As ] a pair of aces.

medisle shows [ Ah, Jc ] a pair of aces.

milkdude222 wins $14 from the main pot with two pairs, fives and twos.

>You have options at Table 11403 Table!.

 

[Kruser6]

**** Hand History for Game 1770741387 *****

$0.5/$1 Hold'em - Monday, March 21, 17:43:46 EDT 2005

Table Table 11403 (Real Money)

Seat 7 is the button

Total number of players : 9

Seat 2: kolman36 ( $30.5 )

Seat 4: stevland ( $30.25 )

Seat 7: SEWERDWELLER ( $15.25 )

Seat 5: kruser6 ( $16 )

Seat 10: golfnut08 ( $45 )

Seat 1: tom_zielony ( $12.75 )

Seat 8: macky14 ( $18.75 )

Seat 6: meat70 ( $25.75 )

Seat 3: ddogg ( $45 )

macky14 posts small blind [$0.25].

golfnut08 posts big blind [$0.5].

** Dealing down cards **

Dealt to kruser6 [ 6h 6d ]

tom_zielony calls [$0.5].

kolman36 folds.

ddogg folds.

stevland folds.

kruser6 calls [$0.5].

meat70 folds.

SEWERDWELLER folds.

macky14 folds.

golfnut08 checks.

** Dealing Flop ** [ 8h, 6c, Th ]

golfnut08 checks.

tom_zielony bets [$0.5].

kruser6 calls [$0.5].

golfnut08 folds.

** Dealing Turn ** [ Qh ]

tom_zielony bets [$1].

kruser6 calls [$1].

>You have options at Table 25384 Table!.

** Dealing River ** [ Ts ]

tom_zielony bets [$1].

kruser6 raises [$2].

tom_zielony raises [$2].

kruser6 raises [$2].

tom_zielony calls [$1].

kruser6 shows [ 6h, 6d ] a full house, Sixes full of tens.

tom_zielony shows [ Qs, Td ] a full house, Tens full of queens.

tom_zielony wins $12 from the main pot with a full house, Tens full of queens.

 

[theswami]

Kruser6-

1) Don't play .5/1 if you want people to respect your bets.

2) Hand 1: Raise your AK preflop.
3) Hand 2: Don't play 66. If you do play it, don't slow play it when you flop a set and there are three cards to a potential str8 or flush on the board.

 

[QuickLearner]

Swami:

2) Hand 1: Raise your AK preflop.

Exactly.

3) Hand 2: Don't play 66. If you do play it, don't slow play it when you flop a set and there are three cards to a potential str8 or flush on the board.

I'd always play it, and I'd call here as Kruzer6 did. I want as many in the pot as possible in case I catch my set...my raise would've scared off the blinds. On the flop Kruzer should have raised, though. The slow play cost him money.

Kruzer6:

In the 66 hand, raising the flop would have alerted you to the fact that you faced competition and it would have done it while the bets were still small. The villain had top pair, and given the fact that he was dumb enough to play Q10 offsuit from early position, he never would have folded to your aggression.

Once the Q hit on the turn and he bet into the flop raiser's face I would have been on my guard. The 10 on the river was a bad break for you, but you couldn't have known. I hate to say it, but it looks like you played your cards without giving a thought to what the villain might have been playing. There were clues to be read. I am really not trying to pile on here, please take my comments as constructive criticism.

Also, in the other thread I suggested that you post hands for review. I see that you are doing this. Just summarize the hands, though. Don't post players' names or else we'll all know to add the villain to our buddy list...

 

[theswami]

Quicklearner-
I would play 66 if I KNEW many people would see the flop without a raise but here are the facts:

1) He had 66 in poor position...what do you do if a late position player raises...you are stuck with a chit hand. Even if the raise does not come how do you play the hand when overcards inevitably come and you do not flop your set, which happens more often than not.

Using your logic, do you play all pocket pairs in that spot? If not, why not? 66 cannot win in low limit unimproved so if your logic is play it because you want to win with a set then why not play 22. The value of the hands is essentially the same.

2) Three players had already folded when he called his bet. So we know that you will not have very many in the pot if your set comes.

I think playing 66 in that position in a low limit game when three have folded will cost you a lot of money over the long term. NL is a different story. In a passive NL game (meaning no raises) with 5 or more seeing the flop I play EVERY pocket pair I see regardless of position.

 

[QuickLearner]

Good points, theswami. Here is my thinking:

He had 66 in poor position

He was 2 off the button. The EPs had folded, and those are the limpers I worry about.

So we know that you will not have very many in the pot if your set comes.

Yep, who knew everybody but the BB would fold. Okay, I've got a pair against one limper and the BB. I like my chances.

what do you do if a late position player raises...you are stuck with a chit hand...

I canll the raise. If I like my chances for 1 bet I like 'em for 2.

Even if the raise does not come how do you play the hand when overcards inevitably come and you do not flop your set, which happens more often than not.

I'm 12:1 to hit my set, and if I don't hit it I'm folding to aggression. Since I act last, if they all check I'm betting and folding to a CR.

do you play all pocket pairs in that spot?

Absolutely! For one bet. If it's raised in front of me, probably not. Unless the raiser is a madman (and there are plenty of them at Party .50/$1).

66 cannot win in low limit unimproved...

I disagree with you on this. I get your point, but I bet if I check my stats I won't show a negative number for any pocket pair anywhere including under the gun. You just have to know when you're beaten. Gambooooling is fun!

 

[theswami]

Quick-

Check your stats on those pairs, I would be interested in the results. Maybe I just learned a little something.

 

[QuickLearner]

Hmmm. I was almost dead nuts. I looked at Party only, and $1/$2 only. The sample size was about 30,000 hands, almost all played before Sept. last year. All but two categories of pairs were profitable. The losers were 99(!!) at -0.01BigBets/hand. Everything else made money, ranging from AA at +5.34 BB/hand to 33 which earned me +0.01 BB/hand. All pairs from all non-blind seats averaged out to +1.01 BB/hand.

Under the gun specifically, pairs won an average of 1.31 BB/hand for me. There were 4 losers, 99 (-0.58); 66 (-0.25); 55 (-1.20) and 33 (-0.88). AA from UTG won at a clip of 4.32 BB/hand [another hmmm...I suspect the automatic raise did its job] and 22 won at +2.10 BB/hand from UTG!

When I had to call a raise after I had llimped all pairs averaged to +0.50 BB/hand. Still profitable, but very swingy. It took me a while to learn when to ditch the hand and it cost me along the way. Tuition...

So, what I may take away from this is that in general, if I can limp in for .5 BB I stand to make about 1 BB/hand over the long run. By the way, I took a quick look at the higher levels and other sites and the results are similar.

 

[Kruser6]

Good replies. . I do think that playing small pocket pairs is can be very profitable.

 

[SoCal]

Thanks but I think even the guy who uses a hand ranking card at the table could have shut this guy down. Too bad he disappeared.

I would love for him to either say 1) "you are wrong", then prove it to me or 2) "I stand corrected."

I wasn't being a dick but guys like him ruin games for EVERYONE.

swami - don't fool yourself. you are being a dick.

I posted a scenario in which, given the tendency of play from this opponent , was certainly within reason. i had str8 high on the turn and was perfectly willing to bet it against a possible set. i've played the opponent before and have notes about his aggressiveness. not only that.. i put him all in while knowingly holding the top hand. str8 high beats a set and i made him pay to try and make his hand. The price for him to see the river card was the rest of his stack.

so is this what you're looking for? that you were right in that a full house could also have beaten me? fine take it you pompous a-hole.

rather than just post some insight or comments to my original post, you prefer to make a pointed comment on how bad of a play i made, citing it as an example of bad poker and then further suggest I not post anymore bad beats.

Got something for ya ace. :finger:

your etiquette for responding to my post leads me to believe you deserve that ten fold.

the game goes well beyond the odds of making a winning hand on the river card like my opponent did. if you yourself, "the swami", live on the river card when people go all-in... well, i look forward to taking your chips soon. people like you make the game worthwile for me.

as for your self-rightousness.. well, you might want to check that at the door if you go to brick and mortar. i've seen asses kicked for less. my guess is that yours are just a set of big internet balls talking... and i well imagine we'll hear a bit more of it coming up soon.

 

[theswami]

SoCal-

I play live when I can and have never gotten into a fight. I often say things to complainers at the table as well. I'm no internet tough guy, I do and say the same chit live.

Check my comments, I didn't think your play was bad, I just didn't think your beat was that horrible. Sure you were unlucky but your beat really wasn't that bad.

I really do not care how you play, in fact your play seemed very good. My comments were based on the fact that you thought your beat was horrible.

You replies and perception of the beat were probably clouded by the fact that you thought he had one out when in fact he had ten times that amount.

Your bad beat story reminds me of a story that a world champ tells. Essentially he was in a similar situation as the guy with the set of tens. The guy he beats goes around the cardroom everyday and tells the story of the bad beat that the champ laid on him without telling the all the facts. The fact that the guy trailed on every street but one and that the eventual winner had more outs than the guy who made his hand on that one street.

 

[theswami]

Hmmm. I was almost dead nuts. I looked at Party only, and $1/$2 only. The sample size was about 30,000 hands, almost all played before Sept. last year. All but two categories of pairs were profitable. The losers were 99(!!) at -0.01BigBets/hand. Everything else made money, ranging from AA at +5.34 BB/hand to 33 which earned me +0.01 BB/hand. All pairs from all non-blind seats averaged out to +1.01 BB/hand.

Under the gun specifically, pairs won an average of 1.31 BB/hand for me. There were 4 losers, 99 (-0.58); 66 (-0.25); 55 (-1.20) and 33 (-0.88). AA from UTG won at a clip of 4.32 BB/hand [another hmmm...I suspect the automatic raise did its job] and 22 won at +2.10 BB/hand from UTG!

When I had to call a raise after I had llimped all pairs averaged to +0.50 BB/hand. Still profitable, but very swingy. It took me a while to learn when to ditch the hand and it cost me along the way. Tuition...

So, what I may take away from this is that in general, if I can limp in for .5 BB I stand to make about 1 BB/hand over the long run. By the way, I took a quick look at the higher levels and other sites and the results are similar.

Thanks Quick. The results are not too surprising. I think your results are good but for the average player, myself included, I would think that not playing pairs below 6 or 7 in early-mid position without callers is probably a good idea.

 

[QuickLearner]

You're welcome. It was a good exercise. There is nothing better than having 4+ other callers in with you. Even then you have to know when you're beaten, but you're more likely to have the odds on your side.